TLR~ Stentoric Banking on non suit if u r against "ball removal abuse"
Local
Motion by Spohn denied a third time
By Heather Ann White (Contact)
Saturday, August 4, 2007
Slough was abducted Sept. 11, 2005, and found dead a day later.
Slough was abducted Sept. 11, 2005, and found dead a day later.
Local News
CORPUS CHRISTI — The Texas Supreme Court denied an emergency motion filed by the Christus Spohn Health System to stop a civil trial involving the kidnapping and murder of a nurse.
The Supreme Court posted its decision on its Web site Friday. This was the hospital's last chance at stopping the trial, in which attorneys for the family of nurse Debra Slough allege that the hospital was negligent in providing security.
Slough was abducted from a Christus Spohn Hospital Shoreline parking lot Sept. 11, 2005, and her body was found a day later in rural Bee County. Jesus Alvarez, who pleaded guilty to Slough's murder, is serving life in prison and is not eligible for parole.
A civil suit was filed in December 2005 on behalf of the Slough family, and the trial is scheduled for Aug. 13.
The Supreme Court's decision did not include an explanation on the Web site. The court typically does not post such information, a court clerk said.
Lawyers representing the hospital system have asked for arbitration in the case in County Court-at-Law No. 4 Judge James Klager's court, which he denied. The hospital system then filed motions with the 13th Court of Appeals asking for arbitration and was denied again.
"I think that Spohn's last hope of avoiding this trial is over," said Robert Hilliard, lead attorney for the Slough family. "We're going to trial on Aug. 13 and a jury is going to decide what's going to happen."
Calls to Spohn attorneys were not returned Friday.
Contact Heather Ann White at 886-3794 or whiteh@caller.com
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Posted by bluegalcc on August 4, 2007 at 7:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
why would spohn think they had the right to arbitration? does anyone know?
Posted by g1r8c7c6 on August 4, 2007 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They seem to be trying to do everything from withholding evidence to creating an arbitration clause for injured families who dare question Spohn's actions. Enough already, either settle the case or let a jury decide.
Posted by sylarispe on August 4, 2007 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is a shame that a so called religious medical institution could attempt to deny their negligence in this case by subverting the legal process. What happened to "I am my brothers keeper"?
Posted by claudedunger on August 4, 2007 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No one should be afraid of a jury, unless.....
Posted by jofelein on August 4, 2007 at 8 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Most all employer-employee disputes these days are handled through arbitration, due to clauses in employment and/or employee benefit contracts.
It's not necessarily a bad thing. Employee plaintiffs can usually count on getting money, but employer defendants don't run the risk of a runaway jury. It also keeps litigation expenses down, because the process isn't usually so drawn out.
Also, you can't usually appeal an award in arbitration. Whatever is awarded has to be paid pretty quickly. However, if the jury in this case awards damages, the family could still have to wait years to learn if they will really see a dime, because appeals can go on for a long time.
Posted by dannoynted1 on August 4, 2007 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Nuns are not there anymore.
Posted by markdicarlo on August 4, 2007 at 8:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The newspaper does not mention whether of not the attorneys for the hospital should be sanctioned for untimely filing what would appear to be a series of frivolous defenses to the lawsuit. Had the attorneys representing the deceased's family filed a series of such motions the newpaper would have been up in arms with the angle or spin that the lawsuit is frivolous.
Arbitration is nothing more than a tactic to deprive people their right to a fair jury trial.
Posted by magnumto on August 4, 2007 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I suspect Spohn will try to settle out of court now. They sure seem worried about leaving this in a jury's hands.
Posted by sunny76daz on August 4, 2007 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
dannoynted1 -- just wanted to make sure you know you are wrong with your statement.....
Sisters of Charity Health Care and Incarnet Word Health system merged in 1999 to become one.. CHRISTUS Health. If you notice.. it is not just SPOHN, it is CHRISTUS HEALTH SPOHN HOSPTIAL.. Since then the "nuns" are still VERY present in the operations of Spohn.
Take a look at thier website.. or better yet, look at the Leadship at Spohn. There are 2 Sister on the Board of Directors for Spohn, and 1 Executive Leadership - Sister Carol Ann Jokerst who is the Vice President of Mission Effecitve for CHRISTUS Spohn Health System.
Belive me, I am not giving an opinion in this case becuase I choose not to share, but make sure you know the reality of an organization before making comments about it. Thanks!
Posted by padreman1019 on August 4, 2007 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Another case of a ridiculous law suit against an institution that can't afford such. Why would a hospital be responsible for someone abducted in their parking lot? It's always somebody else's fault when bad things happen and somebody has to pay. Makes the family look bad to me.
Posted by muffin on August 4, 2007 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
padreman1019 - congratulations!
It's nice to see that common sense still survives in todays world where "Lawsuit Lotto" has become so common. Too bad you won't be on the jury.
I feel for the Lady's family. There's no way I can understand their pain but I can recognize that no amount of "MONEY" can ever compensate for their loss, certainly not when it comes from a source which shares no complicity in the crime committed against them...
Posted by jerry.rios on August 4, 2007 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Padreman1019...a landowner can be held responsible for dangerous conditions that injure another on his property.
Its not as simple as bad things happening on the property. The family's lawyer will have to show that Spohn knew of previous crime occurring on the property and that they did nothing to protect the employees in the particular parking lot. This is failure to act reasonably.
If Spohn knew of car burglaries or muggings happening in the parking lot around the same time of night as this victim was abducted, yet never increased security or installed additional lighting or did anything to make the lot safer, they would have some responsibility. The lawyer would need to prove all of this.
Hope this helps.
Posted by jlopezandfamily52 on August 4, 2007 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Again big business trying to shun their responsibilites! My wife and I were involved in a bad accident this year and we were treated at Spohn Mem. Thankfully, they did save my wife's life, however, we lost a $200 watch in the ER, they failed to diagnose or treat a ruptured eardrum on my wife, they failed to address her loss of smell or taste, and they said my knee was fine, after I complained about it daily. Come to find out, I had a torn ACL, a half torn MCL and a broken fibula. Who will hold this hospital accountable??? If there is a lawyer interested in this, write me please.
Posted by rosemart66 on August 4, 2007 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
..."In its denial, the court of appeals said the health system didn't request arbitration in a timely manner and also led opposing counsel and the plaintiffs to believe there would be a trial in the case stemming from the slaying of Debra Slough...."
Spohn should have filed request sooner - why did they / their attorney's wait so long...the above info is from a previous caller times article...
Posted by jkobus on August 4, 2007 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
does this mean that any employer would be responsible for terrible things that happen to thier employees after work? yes, this was a tragedy but how could the hospital be responsible???? everything has to be a lawsuite today, sure do wonder if these suites could have anything to do with rising prices on just about everything
Posted by kspcm01 on August 4, 2007 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
While this case certainly reeks of lawsuit abuse, the Christus Spohn Health System does NOT have the right to stop the civil trial. Even though a competent jury is sometimes difficult to acquire (the old joke being that many jurists are simply not "smart enough" or "motivated" to GET OUT of jury duty), the fact remains that a defendent should not have the right to end a trial.
That being said, it astounds me to think that the hospital can be found economically liable for the actions of an intruder. What sort of precedent will this set?
What if an individual drives into a Whataburger and is found guilty of intentionally running over a cashier? Would Whataburger be economically liable for such a crime? The impact of a guilty verdict would have expensive ramification across Texas and the rest of the United States.
Sadly, there are enough dumb people out there who would hold any "big" business liable in favor of "regular folks." How many frivolous lawsuits have plagued our courts in the last few years?
:<
Posted by micmiller97 on August 4, 2007 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sunny76daz - thank you for correcting the errouneous information that Padreman1019 had. As you, I want to make a comment but not share anymore than necessary.
jlopezandfamily52 - if you want to sue - sue the doctor - they are independents from the hospital and that is who missed your diagnosis. You cannot blame the nurses or a hospital for the diagnosis of a doctor who is an independent contractor. But just remember that these lawsuits also drive even the good doctors out of the area. You are also given a statement of your rights upon admission and it states that you can deny being discharged if you feel that you are not up to standards of going home. You should hvae voiced your opinion before you and your wife were discharged.
If property owners can be sued for what happens on their property, then both Wal-Mart and Target are open for lawsuits for those that have been abducted from their parking lots.
Posted by visuallink on August 4, 2007 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Alvarez had been on their property for over 6 hours lurking around the building before Debbie got abducted. Wal-Mart andTarget have security driving around every 5 minutes, and have a security guard parked in the very back of the parking lot watching everything. It's funny, not only was there only 3 security guards on the clock that day for that huge huge complex, but they couldn't even notice a gang banger from his looks, and didn't even know that he had been on the property stalking everyone trying to find a victim for half the morning.
To top it off, IT HAPPEND DURING THE DAYTIME! HELLOOOO! NO SECURITY SAW HIM? IT WAS THAT POOR! HE WAS INSIDE, OUTSIDE AND ALL AROUND THE BUILDING REPEATEDLY! THIS HAPPEND AT 3PM!!!
You people can say its lawsuit abuse all you want, but all of you are so wrong. Money can't compensate for the loss over Debbie, but it can sure bring some happyness. The money isnt suppose to compensate for a loss, it's suppose to bring a little happyness back into their lives to compensate for the pain that they are going through right now due to the loss that could have been prevented if security wasn't so poor in the work environment.
None of you people are in the position that the Slough's are in, so you shouldn't be running your mouths as if you know what they are going through right now because it's worse than anyone can possibly imagine.
Spohn hid a survalence tape..and denied having it over 17 times. What makes everyone think that they never had documented recordings of stalkings being on the premises? You all believe that? There was people coming foward saying they were being stalked, and even reported it. Spohn could have just burned all those documents and said they never had anything. It's easy to do. They hid the video tape didn't they? Inside the true court is where everything spills, the judge knows more of whats going on than any of you do because thats where its all being explained. They were sanctioned, and they couldn't even write a correct check.
Posted by vivian_r on August 4, 2007 at 10:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
For all of you who think Spohn is so good to it's employees I dare you to go apply for a job there and if you are unfortunate enough to get hired lets see how long you will put up with the B.S. they sling.
Spohn is the Anti Christ they no more belive that mission statemet of theirs than the man in the moon.
Security is lax that has already been proven by the guy hanging out in the garage for 6 hours. The security room is on the other side of the E.R. they have cameras there but half the time the place is empty. Why because security is either feeding their faces or trying to pick up nurses.
One security gaurd in particular is the worst he thinks he is God's gift to women and will hang out at nurses stations nearly half of his shift. I have seen it I worked there and even reported him.
Posted by tktamez on August 4, 2007 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Vivian is right about the security. You ask them to walk you to your car and they either complain in a NICE way, or want to know your personal business. Come on now, it's well known by the employees by now. I still don't feel safe in that parking garage. They always say that it's not a city matter when something happens out there, so the employees don't call 911. So if it's their private property, then they are responsible for what happens on it. They can't have it both ways. They don't want city police to help, then they ARE responsible. If they don't want to be responsible, then shut down the parking lot to visitors, and make their VALET parking people park every dang car that pulls up. Then the visiters can just stand outside the garage and wait for the valet to bring their car to them. Maybe the judge will order mandatory valet parking for Spohn visitors. Then the security will only have to look for someone breaking in the cars, but at least we won't have to worry about one of our co-workers getting killed again
Posted by visuallink on August 5, 2007 at 5:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Also, Don't even say an institution such as Spohn can't afford to pay up. In 2006, the non-profit organization Christus Health made up to 1.6 Billion dollars in profit. That is over 999,999,999 million...What the Slough's are suing for isn't even a big chunk of that profit that they made, maybe no more than 2-3% of that?
Posted by robertnsheri on August 5, 2007 at 3:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
To Visuallink:
The man was on the hospital premises for over 4 hours. (Posted by visuallink on July 21, 2007 at 10:09 p.m)
Alvarez had been on their property for over 6 hours lurking around the building before Debbie got abducted. (Posted by visuallink on August 4, 2007 at 9:38 p.m.)
So which is it? Funny how people exaggerate the truth or just make assumptions.
"but they couldn't even notice a gang banger from his looks..." (Posted by visuallink on August 4, 2007 at 9:38 p.m.)
So are you making that assumption because he is hispanic, shaved head, with tattoos?
Also, money will never bring true happiness....happiness lies within the person.
To Vivian_r:
If you’re that disgruntled about working at Spohn, maybe you should seek counseling. I'm not trying to be rude but I've seen some of your postings and just thought that maybe counseling would help.
To Tktamez:
Are you serious about valet? Do you know how many people have complained that they have stuff missing? Also, valet workers have wrecked vehicles while trying to park them. I wouldn't want them to park my vehicle for sure!
Posted by visuallink on August 6, 2007 at 1:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You are such an idiot, Alvarez admitted how long he had been on the Hospital when he got caught.. I don't make assumptions, I am very close with the Slough's. You aren't.
And yes, someone looking like that lurking around for 4 hours is not hard to miss.
Posted by dannoynted1 on August 6, 2007 at 4:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
sunny76daz~ I was responding to
sylarispe
"It is a shame that a so called religious medical institution could attempt to deny their negligence in this case by subverting the legal process. What happened to "I am my brothers keeper"?"
So i said: The Nuns are not there anymore.
Then you say:
dannoynted1 -- just wanted to make sure you know you are wrong with your statement.....
Sisters of Charity Health Care and Incarnet Word Health system merged in 1999 to become one.. CHRISTUS Health. If you notice.. it is not just SPOHN, it is CHRISTUS HEALTH SPOHN HOSPTIAL.. Since then the "nuns" are still VERY present in the operations of Spohn.
Well how come they are not visible?
Spohn Hospital was established by Arther & his wife Sarah Josephine Kenedy Spohn prior to both these charities and these charities are viable thanks to the very generous gifts they have received through the generosity of the Kenedy Family.
Why are these nuns not visiting the teenage mothers having babies in this hospital?
I am sure if they were big donors to the Diocese, the Bishop himself would be there during visiting hour.
The only nuns I see belong to neither of these organizations you mentioned.
BTW~You spelled Incarnate incorrectly.
And I know all about IWA my mother's family went to that school all their life till college. When the nuns were the teachers
Posted by dannoynted1 on August 6, 2007 at 4:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The main problem with this lawsuit is that the attorneys for the hospital withheld crucial evidence, denied it's existence and then now claims that if this was "Dick Chaney or Whittington" they would have promptly turned over these security TAPES!
Why pay for video surveillance and then deny it?
Either you were lying when you told the insurance company you had it or in order to cut costs you lied.
But they do have it and if it were the Bishop this would not have happened at all!
Security cameras are there for this very reason and to not disclose this information is a travesty of justice.
Posted by narc on August 6, 2007 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
where is the common sense with you people? If I were a business owner I would get rid of my security so I won't get sued.
Posted by rramos4us on August 6, 2007 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I really agree with visuallink. This is a great loss to the family. The hospital needs to stop hidding the truth and start paying up. This will be appealed for sure all because of the security is lame. Also, because this family is going to get payied. I hope they really get some money after this cover up. Shame on you Spohn. That hospital is so going to have to pay.
Posted by jsneed on August 6, 2007 at 12:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Who is to say what is right in this case. Increased security measures lead to decreased freedoms and increased cost which lead to higher prices for all of us.
The police rarely get to protect anyone during a violent crime. Most criminals eventually get caught, so the protection is by virtue of enforcing laws, not by beeing superheros.
Courthouses, schools, hospitals, stadiums, hotels, and large company complexes usually have some form of security and surveilence. This is only a deterent. Don't forget about the girl abducted at Target. The cameras helped find the killer, but they did not protect the girl.
I don't know enough about the case to comment on the particulars. I just wanted to remind everyone that more laws and security may not be the answer. This lawsuit will not protect anybody in the future. You will still have to take care of yourself and loved ones as best as possible and allways be mindful of your surroundings.
Posted by arodriguez on August 6, 2007 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with jsneed. I dont think that this lawsuit is going to solve anything either. I am deeply sorry for their loss, but this lawsuit will not bring her back. Like jsneed said it will only bring higher cost for us all. No one is required to have cameras they do it as an extra in hopes that it will bring down crime. Just think about it what about all these robberies at these convenience stores do you think the convenient store is to blame for what happens? The answer is NO it is neither the store nor the employees fault for what happens it is the one that chose to do the crime. The only thing the cameras and security do is to possibly help in preventing it, it does not mean it will never happen or that it guarantees that it will not happen.
Posted by narc on August 6, 2007 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well said arodriquez, we live in a dangerous world and we need to be cautious at all times. This was an awful tragedy and no amount of money will make it right, but I hope when this is all done their family will find some peace and closure.
Posted by southwestaustin on August 6, 2007 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Predators have always known that a hospital parking lot is a great place to stake out their next victim. Why? Because of the large percentage of female nurses. If a psycho could figure this out, then a corporation like Spohn Hospital should have too. There have been so many movies about nurses being preyed upon by various types of criminals. It only makes sense that they are vulnerable to all sorts of weirdos.
Posted by grimjack41 on August 6, 2007 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Law suit abuse pure and simple. Then people wonder why you have to go to San Antonio or other cities to find a "good doctor".....
In my opinion for Spohn to be "liable" it must be proven that Spohn in some way either encouraged, or allowed this act to happen. Simply having the act to occur isn't enough. What happened here is completely sad but suing a 3rd party just because they have money doesn't make it right. If Spohn withheld evidence or in any way interfered with the investigation in any way, that’s an issue between the DA and Spohn, not the family. Unless there was a law change I don’t know about there isn’t any requirement for a company to give up ANYTHING of this nature unless under court order. How would you feel if I demanded your family home videos for example because I tripped in your yard? How do you know I’m not going to use it for something else (like where you hide your keys or the layout of your home), etc.
This is greed pure and simple. I feel for the family but I sure hope they loose, for all our sake. It’s funny how wolves circle when they smell blood....
Posted by visuallink on August 6, 2007 at 7:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's not greed and its not lawsuit abuse... Debra had all the money and was going to put them all through college, and lead them to great lives. Now she is gone. Who is going to put them through college? Who is going to provide for the children now? How are the two little ones going to survive without their mother being able to provide for them? The youngest one has Down syndrome! Debra put all the food on the table. SHE HAD ALL THE MONEY! It's not greed, it's about the kids being able to live great lives from here on out and helping cope with what happend to Debbie without having to worry about the dangers of not having any money on top of losing their mother.
You people don't know this family so how the hell would you know what is going on in their minds right now? It's not GREED or MONEY or any kind of open opportunity for money. This is how you get back at corporation for not providing a safe environment. The Corporation is GREEDY, not the Slough's. They don't like to give a dime to anyone.. Sure anyone will accept the money from a lawsuit, but they would drop this whole damn lawsuit if they saw Debra walk right through that front door because this lawsuit isn't exactly about money. You speak like you know who they are. You don't. You have no idea because this has never happend to any of you. I see them every day, and we all pass by Debra's grave everyday. You are all just people with lowdown opinions because you were never in this situation. They will win, and I will be right at their side when they do. And when they do, everything you people say, and all the criticism towards the lawsuit will amount to nothing.
Lawsuit abuse, greed....? Hush with all this crap. It's not true. They would give it all up to see Debbie's face again. All you all can do is compare it to an abduction from Target which is a portion size of Spohn, or something IDIOTIC like "tripping in the front yard". This was a murder, not a trip. You all sound so childish.
You hope they lose for your sake? What sake? The only people who have anything to lose is the family. Not you. Why should Spohn raise your healthcare costs when they make billions of dollars in profits to cover for it EVERY SINGLE YEAR! If healthcare does go up, it should only be like 5 dollars per person, because of all the people registered that 5 dollars will cover for their money loss in a heart beat. Why should Spohn raise your health care? Don't they sound greedy? The money that Spohn will lose from this lawsuit is like a penny out of their pocket. Spohn are the greedy ones, not anyone else.
Posted by rramos4us on August 7, 2007 at 5:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Again I agree with visualink. Yes, your right 100% The greed and lies are what's fueling this case. Lawsuit abuse?? Whoever said that needs to have their heads examined. What's it to these people? Are they paying to take care of the kids in this case. What if it was you? Then they would be concerned. Hey , they need to provide a safe place to work not trying to cover up mistakes. No COver-ups Just pay up and then leave this family alone. They have suffered enough.
Posted by narc on August 7, 2007 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
visualink,
your insults speak a great deal about your character. People have differences of opinions, that doesn't make them idiots or lowdown. Lawsuit abuse is everywhere in this town, and if you look at this from an unbiased point of view you can see an arguement for both sides. I have lost a family member due to a violent crime, so I do know what it is like. Insulting people doesn't make the pain go away, and neither does money.
Posted by grimjack41 on August 7, 2007 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And here we go again. People with this "YOU OWE ME" mentality. How will the kids get taken care of and go to school? Are you telling me that their father can’t work? Or that their grandparents can’t support them? That’s what family and insurance is for. If she could work as a nurse at Spohn I would think she could afford these things. What ever happened to planning for the worst and self reliance in our community? No it’s not my responsibility to take care of myself it’s the big bad greedy company’s fault and their job!
Here is another question, are they asking for enough to send the kids to college and bury her or are they asking for millions in damages? I might buy the argument if it was for school and burial costs (I would still disagree but could buy the argument) but why millions few people make more than 1 million in their entire life! Yet they want to be millionaires. Why because they can ie lawsuit abuse.
If Spohn killed her or allowed her to be killed, I would agree they should be punished but THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!! It was a private citizen stalker! If Spohn had gone after him, they could have faced a REAL and VALID lawsuit called discrimination! If he was loitering, the most they could have done is called the police but loitering isn’t even enough for a restraining order or a fine!
What I meant by "for our sake" is because if she wins, a standard will be set in this area which will further drive the medical community out. I don't know about you but I don't want to go to SA every time I go for a check up. Companies are in business to make money, period if due to lawsuits and the requirements they put on them, it costs more to operate than they make, either they raise the prices or leave. There is something else factored into the price and it’s called RISK. If a company is in a high LAWSUIT RISK AREA, like we are in they will charge more to cover the eventual lawsuit risk…. In other words YOU pay in advance for the lawsuit that YOU will file…..
Once again if my point hasn’t been made the family gets a short term benefit but EVERYONE ELSE LOSES in the long run, including them.
Weather YOU like it or not WE should take responsibility for our own actions and family. What has happened is horrible and I do feel for the family. I would like you to know though how this money will “help”? Will it bring her back? No. Will it change anything, no because what did they do wrong? What is the family trying to change? Will it raise the cost of medical care? Yes. So what will it help?
Posted by grimjack41 on August 7, 2007 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hospitals are a business like any other. There is no LAW that REQUIRES any business to guarantee its employees security. They try to offer it as a benefit so that their employees feel secure. The company security isn’t police officers and so have no authority to detain, arrest, question, etc. Security and protection is a GOVERNMENT requirement. If they had a security officer go with her and both ended up dead would then both families sue Spohn for not sending a 3rd a 4th, a 5th, the whole hospital? Where does it end?
I'm sorry but no amount of insults will change these facts and if you have to justify your actions to sleep at night, then maybe you know deep down that you are doing something WRONG….
Posted by rramos4us on August 7, 2007 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is a suggestion. If you need a doctor load up and drive to S.A. If you think that this case is law suit abuse. Go there and tell the doctor to change your diapers and wipe your tears away because of all the crying your doing Wah Wah!. This has to do with a family and that's all. Leave this family alone and mind your bisness. Then everyone wins. I hope Sphon has to pay big bucks for the lies and cover-ups.
Posted by visuallink on August 7, 2007 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Grimjack, maybe you don't understand the concept of a "profit." A "profit" is money left over after all a company's expenses. Spohn made 1.5 BILLION (not million, but billion) dollars in profit in 2006, and most likely something similar to that this year. You don't use profit to pay for expenses because profit is whats left over AFTER THEY ARE ALREADY PAID.
It is the company's fault, partly. The best way to deal with a criminal is prison time and the best way to deal with a corporation is money. Face it, facts are facts. It's how things work. They had poor security, no one to watch the cameras, and a film to prove that the man was on the property. Do you not know how long he was on Spohn before he made a move? Maybe you need to do some more studying.
The point is that in a building like this, someone should at least be watching the camera room, and security should always be circling the building. What everyone fails to realize is how long Alvarez was actually on the property before he abducted Debbie. It was 4 or more hours.
Target - Girl gets abducted. Man runs up, grabs her, and leaves. The man was only on the premises for about 5 to 10 mins, which really isn't a reasonably amount of time for security to classify someone as suspicious.
Spohn - Alvarez walks around in and out of the building, numerously passing security guards, parking lots, and spends about 4 hours looking for a victim OUT IN THE OPEN where he could be seen at 3pm, and is even caught on tape. 4 hours? Don't you think a man who is constantly moving around this place is suspicious after 4 hours? Or was there not enough security to notice this guy? He was even peaking into car windows...something the patient noticed and the guards didn't notice. The guards just walked around because they had to...It's the hire officials who are responsible for training the guards properly even if they pay them minimum wage.
Alvarez was walking around, looking suspicious, trying to find the perfect opportunity to take someone. I mean, if there was enough security like there should be, then one of the guards should have said himself, "hey...I've seen this guy at least 6 or 7 times pass by me going in different directions, and I've even seen him in the building walking the halls, I wonder what he's doing here?" Alvarez was on the property for a long time. Security should always be alert of their surroundings, and if 2 or 3 guards isn't enough, then there should be more. If security was adequate then most likely one of them would have stopped him and escorted him off the building.
*Continues on the next comment*
Posted by visuallink on August 7, 2007 at 6:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
*continuation of the comment above*
Why has security improved significantly at Spohn every since Debbie's death if this is true like some are saying? Wait..maybe the question is... Why wasn't security as good back then as it is right now? Maybe because they were lazy and not properly trained to be alert because they couldn't spot a man to be suspicious who was on the premises for FOUR hours and walking all around their parking lots and inside the building.
If all these facts weren't true about Alvarez then the lawsuit wouldn't even be going on right now. The lawyers, me, the family, and everyone else truly believe that Spohn is somewhat at fault based on the facts that Alvarez told the reporters and interviewers when they asked him how long he was on the premises, what he was doing on the premises, where he abducted her from, and how he did it and all the other heartbreaking facts from this story.
Posted by bill_sebring on August 8, 2007 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I will agree that there is lawsuit abuse, but I also think that it's been hyped up for a purpose. Business and the almighty dollar is not some holy alter that we should hide behind, as an excuse for not going after someone when they've been, wait for the word, "Negligient". I do agree with visuallink here. The security situation was NOTHING but a joke. If you were in this families shoes Grimjack, you'd be screaming as loudly as they were. The hospital was denying it had security tapes, when in fact they did. There is a problem with Lawsuit abuse, but that is not an excuse for business to hide behind when it's screwed up.
Posted by robertnsheri on August 9, 2007 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
visuallink....
So was the criminal on property 4 or 6 hours? You never answered my question! I posted exactly what you said on previous postings and you said 4 and then you said 6! Hmmmm...
Also, if you're so CLOSE to the family....then get together with other family members and do a fundraiser (to send the kids to college) instead of trying to blame a HOSPITAL for actions of a criminal.
Also, if you think you can do a better job at securing a HOSPITAL and you want to prevent this from happening again....GET A JOB AT A HOSPITAL FOR THE SECURITY DEPARTMENT.
Posted by robertnsheri on August 9, 2007 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Also, the guards (security officers) are NOT paid minimum wage. But yet you know so much!
Posted by visuallink on August 10, 2007 at 2:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't remember saying "Security at Spohn gets paid minimum wage."
I said they should be properly trained even if they were being paid minimum wage. If they are paid more than that, then hell, they should have been top of the line.
I'm not blaming the hospital for Alvarez's actions. I'm blaming the hospital for not having enough security when this happend. I mean hell, 4 to 6 hours, maybe longer? Must I repeat my whole article all over again? If you are trying to tell me that there was nothing wrong with security on the day of this tragedy, then tell me how he got away with everything he did that day on the premises. You must have not seen the news two years ago when they had him on camera admitting what he did on the hospital, and how long he was there. And as I've said before, the lawsuit wouldn't have been filed if he hadn't have been all over the hospital for half the morning hours.
And by the way.. If I had control over how the hospital operates then security would not be a problem.
Posted by robertnsheri on August 10, 2007 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Then make a difference and change that! Hmmm, no response about a fundraiser huh?? Also, most people involved in criminal activity do not always tell the truth.
Posted by robertnsheri on August 10, 2007 at 6:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
grimjack41:
Great points....but he (visuallink) will never understand that!!
Posted by dannoynted1 on August 11, 2007 at 4:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The truth is Bank o and McDonough bailed because they knew the Chit was fixing to hit and attach itself to the proverbial FAN!
It stinks!
Motion by Spohn denied a third time
By Heather Ann White (Contact)
Saturday, August 4, 2007
Slough was abducted Sept. 11, 2005, and found dead a day later.
Slough was abducted Sept. 11, 2005, and found dead a day later.
Local News
CORPUS CHRISTI — The Texas Supreme Court denied an emergency motion filed by the Christus Spohn Health System to stop a civil trial involving the kidnapping and murder of a nurse.
The Supreme Court posted its decision on its Web site Friday. This was the hospital's last chance at stopping the trial, in which attorneys for the family of nurse Debra Slough allege that the hospital was negligent in providing security.
Slough was abducted from a Christus Spohn Hospital Shoreline parking lot Sept. 11, 2005, and her body was found a day later in rural Bee County. Jesus Alvarez, who pleaded guilty to Slough's murder, is serving life in prison and is not eligible for parole.
A civil suit was filed in December 2005 on behalf of the Slough family, and the trial is scheduled for Aug. 13.
The Supreme Court's decision did not include an explanation on the Web site. The court typically does not post such information, a court clerk said.
Lawyers representing the hospital system have asked for arbitration in the case in County Court-at-Law No. 4 Judge James Klager's court, which he denied. The hospital system then filed motions with the 13th Court of Appeals asking for arbitration and was denied again.
"I think that Spohn's last hope of avoiding this trial is over," said Robert Hilliard, lead attorney for the Slough family. "We're going to trial on Aug. 13 and a jury is going to decide what's going to happen."
Calls to Spohn attorneys were not returned Friday.
Contact Heather Ann White at 886-3794 or whiteh@caller.com
View latest stories with comments »
Post Your Comments
Posted by bluegalcc on August 4, 2007 at 7:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
why would spohn think they had the right to arbitration? does anyone know?
Posted by g1r8c7c6 on August 4, 2007 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They seem to be trying to do everything from withholding evidence to creating an arbitration clause for injured families who dare question Spohn's actions. Enough already, either settle the case or let a jury decide.
Posted by sylarispe on August 4, 2007 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is a shame that a so called religious medical institution could attempt to deny their negligence in this case by subverting the legal process. What happened to "I am my brothers keeper"?
Posted by claudedunger on August 4, 2007 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No one should be afraid of a jury, unless.....
Posted by jofelein on August 4, 2007 at 8 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Most all employer-employee disputes these days are handled through arbitration, due to clauses in employment and/or employee benefit contracts.
It's not necessarily a bad thing. Employee plaintiffs can usually count on getting money, but employer defendants don't run the risk of a runaway jury. It also keeps litigation expenses down, because the process isn't usually so drawn out.
Also, you can't usually appeal an award in arbitration. Whatever is awarded has to be paid pretty quickly. However, if the jury in this case awards damages, the family could still have to wait years to learn if they will really see a dime, because appeals can go on for a long time.
Posted by dannoynted1 on August 4, 2007 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Nuns are not there anymore.
Posted by markdicarlo on August 4, 2007 at 8:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The newspaper does not mention whether of not the attorneys for the hospital should be sanctioned for untimely filing what would appear to be a series of frivolous defenses to the lawsuit. Had the attorneys representing the deceased's family filed a series of such motions the newpaper would have been up in arms with the angle or spin that the lawsuit is frivolous.
Arbitration is nothing more than a tactic to deprive people their right to a fair jury trial.
Posted by magnumto on August 4, 2007 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I suspect Spohn will try to settle out of court now. They sure seem worried about leaving this in a jury's hands.
Posted by sunny76daz on August 4, 2007 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
dannoynted1 -- just wanted to make sure you know you are wrong with your statement.....
Sisters of Charity Health Care and Incarnet Word Health system merged in 1999 to become one.. CHRISTUS Health. If you notice.. it is not just SPOHN, it is CHRISTUS HEALTH SPOHN HOSPTIAL.. Since then the "nuns" are still VERY present in the operations of Spohn.
Take a look at thier website.. or better yet, look at the Leadship at Spohn. There are 2 Sister on the Board of Directors for Spohn, and 1 Executive Leadership - Sister Carol Ann Jokerst who is the Vice President of Mission Effecitve for CHRISTUS Spohn Health System.
Belive me, I am not giving an opinion in this case becuase I choose not to share, but make sure you know the reality of an organization before making comments about it. Thanks!
Posted by padreman1019 on August 4, 2007 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Another case of a ridiculous law suit against an institution that can't afford such. Why would a hospital be responsible for someone abducted in their parking lot? It's always somebody else's fault when bad things happen and somebody has to pay. Makes the family look bad to me.
Posted by muffin on August 4, 2007 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
padreman1019 - congratulations!
It's nice to see that common sense still survives in todays world where "Lawsuit Lotto" has become so common. Too bad you won't be on the jury.
I feel for the Lady's family. There's no way I can understand their pain but I can recognize that no amount of "MONEY" can ever compensate for their loss, certainly not when it comes from a source which shares no complicity in the crime committed against them...
Posted by jerry.rios on August 4, 2007 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Padreman1019...a landowner can be held responsible for dangerous conditions that injure another on his property.
Its not as simple as bad things happening on the property. The family's lawyer will have to show that Spohn knew of previous crime occurring on the property and that they did nothing to protect the employees in the particular parking lot. This is failure to act reasonably.
If Spohn knew of car burglaries or muggings happening in the parking lot around the same time of night as this victim was abducted, yet never increased security or installed additional lighting or did anything to make the lot safer, they would have some responsibility. The lawyer would need to prove all of this.
Hope this helps.
Posted by jlopezandfamily52 on August 4, 2007 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Again big business trying to shun their responsibilites! My wife and I were involved in a bad accident this year and we were treated at Spohn Mem. Thankfully, they did save my wife's life, however, we lost a $200 watch in the ER, they failed to diagnose or treat a ruptured eardrum on my wife, they failed to address her loss of smell or taste, and they said my knee was fine, after I complained about it daily. Come to find out, I had a torn ACL, a half torn MCL and a broken fibula. Who will hold this hospital accountable??? If there is a lawyer interested in this, write me please.
Posted by rosemart66 on August 4, 2007 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
..."In its denial, the court of appeals said the health system didn't request arbitration in a timely manner and also led opposing counsel and the plaintiffs to believe there would be a trial in the case stemming from the slaying of Debra Slough...."
Spohn should have filed request sooner - why did they / their attorney's wait so long...the above info is from a previous caller times article...
Posted by jkobus on August 4, 2007 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
does this mean that any employer would be responsible for terrible things that happen to thier employees after work? yes, this was a tragedy but how could the hospital be responsible???? everything has to be a lawsuite today, sure do wonder if these suites could have anything to do with rising prices on just about everything
Posted by kspcm01 on August 4, 2007 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
While this case certainly reeks of lawsuit abuse, the Christus Spohn Health System does NOT have the right to stop the civil trial. Even though a competent jury is sometimes difficult to acquire (the old joke being that many jurists are simply not "smart enough" or "motivated" to GET OUT of jury duty), the fact remains that a defendent should not have the right to end a trial.
That being said, it astounds me to think that the hospital can be found economically liable for the actions of an intruder. What sort of precedent will this set?
What if an individual drives into a Whataburger and is found guilty of intentionally running over a cashier? Would Whataburger be economically liable for such a crime? The impact of a guilty verdict would have expensive ramification across Texas and the rest of the United States.
Sadly, there are enough dumb people out there who would hold any "big" business liable in favor of "regular folks." How many frivolous lawsuits have plagued our courts in the last few years?
:<
Posted by micmiller97 on August 4, 2007 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sunny76daz - thank you for correcting the errouneous information that Padreman1019 had. As you, I want to make a comment but not share anymore than necessary.
jlopezandfamily52 - if you want to sue - sue the doctor - they are independents from the hospital and that is who missed your diagnosis. You cannot blame the nurses or a hospital for the diagnosis of a doctor who is an independent contractor. But just remember that these lawsuits also drive even the good doctors out of the area. You are also given a statement of your rights upon admission and it states that you can deny being discharged if you feel that you are not up to standards of going home. You should hvae voiced your opinion before you and your wife were discharged.
If property owners can be sued for what happens on their property, then both Wal-Mart and Target are open for lawsuits for those that have been abducted from their parking lots.
Posted by visuallink on August 4, 2007 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Alvarez had been on their property for over 6 hours lurking around the building before Debbie got abducted. Wal-Mart andTarget have security driving around every 5 minutes, and have a security guard parked in the very back of the parking lot watching everything. It's funny, not only was there only 3 security guards on the clock that day for that huge huge complex, but they couldn't even notice a gang banger from his looks, and didn't even know that he had been on the property stalking everyone trying to find a victim for half the morning.
To top it off, IT HAPPEND DURING THE DAYTIME! HELLOOOO! NO SECURITY SAW HIM? IT WAS THAT POOR! HE WAS INSIDE, OUTSIDE AND ALL AROUND THE BUILDING REPEATEDLY! THIS HAPPEND AT 3PM!!!
You people can say its lawsuit abuse all you want, but all of you are so wrong. Money can't compensate for the loss over Debbie, but it can sure bring some happyness. The money isnt suppose to compensate for a loss, it's suppose to bring a little happyness back into their lives to compensate for the pain that they are going through right now due to the loss that could have been prevented if security wasn't so poor in the work environment.
None of you people are in the position that the Slough's are in, so you shouldn't be running your mouths as if you know what they are going through right now because it's worse than anyone can possibly imagine.
Spohn hid a survalence tape..and denied having it over 17 times. What makes everyone think that they never had documented recordings of stalkings being on the premises? You all believe that? There was people coming foward saying they were being stalked, and even reported it. Spohn could have just burned all those documents and said they never had anything. It's easy to do. They hid the video tape didn't they? Inside the true court is where everything spills, the judge knows more of whats going on than any of you do because thats where its all being explained. They were sanctioned, and they couldn't even write a correct check.
Posted by vivian_r on August 4, 2007 at 10:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
For all of you who think Spohn is so good to it's employees I dare you to go apply for a job there and if you are unfortunate enough to get hired lets see how long you will put up with the B.S. they sling.
Spohn is the Anti Christ they no more belive that mission statemet of theirs than the man in the moon.
Security is lax that has already been proven by the guy hanging out in the garage for 6 hours. The security room is on the other side of the E.R. they have cameras there but half the time the place is empty. Why because security is either feeding their faces or trying to pick up nurses.
One security gaurd in particular is the worst he thinks he is God's gift to women and will hang out at nurses stations nearly half of his shift. I have seen it I worked there and even reported him.
Posted by tktamez on August 4, 2007 at 10:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Vivian is right about the security. You ask them to walk you to your car and they either complain in a NICE way, or want to know your personal business. Come on now, it's well known by the employees by now. I still don't feel safe in that parking garage. They always say that it's not a city matter when something happens out there, so the employees don't call 911. So if it's their private property, then they are responsible for what happens on it. They can't have it both ways. They don't want city police to help, then they ARE responsible. If they don't want to be responsible, then shut down the parking lot to visitors, and make their VALET parking people park every dang car that pulls up. Then the visiters can just stand outside the garage and wait for the valet to bring their car to them. Maybe the judge will order mandatory valet parking for Spohn visitors. Then the security will only have to look for someone breaking in the cars, but at least we won't have to worry about one of our co-workers getting killed again
Posted by visuallink on August 5, 2007 at 5:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Also, Don't even say an institution such as Spohn can't afford to pay up. In 2006, the non-profit organization Christus Health made up to 1.6 Billion dollars in profit. That is over 999,999,999 million...What the Slough's are suing for isn't even a big chunk of that profit that they made, maybe no more than 2-3% of that?
Posted by robertnsheri on August 5, 2007 at 3:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
To Visuallink:
The man was on the hospital premises for over 4 hours. (Posted by visuallink on July 21, 2007 at 10:09 p.m)
Alvarez had been on their property for over 6 hours lurking around the building before Debbie got abducted. (Posted by visuallink on August 4, 2007 at 9:38 p.m.)
So which is it? Funny how people exaggerate the truth or just make assumptions.
"but they couldn't even notice a gang banger from his looks..." (Posted by visuallink on August 4, 2007 at 9:38 p.m.)
So are you making that assumption because he is hispanic, shaved head, with tattoos?
Also, money will never bring true happiness....happiness lies within the person.
To Vivian_r:
If you’re that disgruntled about working at Spohn, maybe you should seek counseling. I'm not trying to be rude but I've seen some of your postings and just thought that maybe counseling would help.
To Tktamez:
Are you serious about valet? Do you know how many people have complained that they have stuff missing? Also, valet workers have wrecked vehicles while trying to park them. I wouldn't want them to park my vehicle for sure!
Posted by visuallink on August 6, 2007 at 1:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You are such an idiot, Alvarez admitted how long he had been on the Hospital when he got caught.. I don't make assumptions, I am very close with the Slough's. You aren't.
And yes, someone looking like that lurking around for 4 hours is not hard to miss.
Posted by dannoynted1 on August 6, 2007 at 4:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
sunny76daz~ I was responding to
sylarispe
"It is a shame that a so called religious medical institution could attempt to deny their negligence in this case by subverting the legal process. What happened to "I am my brothers keeper"?"
So i said: The Nuns are not there anymore.
Then you say:
dannoynted1 -- just wanted to make sure you know you are wrong with your statement.....
Sisters of Charity Health Care and Incarnet Word Health system merged in 1999 to become one.. CHRISTUS Health. If you notice.. it is not just SPOHN, it is CHRISTUS HEALTH SPOHN HOSPTIAL.. Since then the "nuns" are still VERY present in the operations of Spohn.
Well how come they are not visible?
Spohn Hospital was established by Arther & his wife Sarah Josephine Kenedy Spohn prior to both these charities and these charities are viable thanks to the very generous gifts they have received through the generosity of the Kenedy Family.
Why are these nuns not visiting the teenage mothers having babies in this hospital?
I am sure if they were big donors to the Diocese, the Bishop himself would be there during visiting hour.
The only nuns I see belong to neither of these organizations you mentioned.
BTW~You spelled Incarnate incorrectly.
And I know all about IWA my mother's family went to that school all their life till college. When the nuns were the teachers
Posted by dannoynted1 on August 6, 2007 at 4:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The main problem with this lawsuit is that the attorneys for the hospital withheld crucial evidence, denied it's existence and then now claims that if this was "Dick Chaney or Whittington" they would have promptly turned over these security TAPES!
Why pay for video surveillance and then deny it?
Either you were lying when you told the insurance company you had it or in order to cut costs you lied.
But they do have it and if it were the Bishop this would not have happened at all!
Security cameras are there for this very reason and to not disclose this information is a travesty of justice.
Posted by narc on August 6, 2007 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
where is the common sense with you people? If I were a business owner I would get rid of my security so I won't get sued.
Posted by rramos4us on August 6, 2007 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I really agree with visuallink. This is a great loss to the family. The hospital needs to stop hidding the truth and start paying up. This will be appealed for sure all because of the security is lame. Also, because this family is going to get payied. I hope they really get some money after this cover up. Shame on you Spohn. That hospital is so going to have to pay.
Posted by jsneed on August 6, 2007 at 12:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Who is to say what is right in this case. Increased security measures lead to decreased freedoms and increased cost which lead to higher prices for all of us.
The police rarely get to protect anyone during a violent crime. Most criminals eventually get caught, so the protection is by virtue of enforcing laws, not by beeing superheros.
Courthouses, schools, hospitals, stadiums, hotels, and large company complexes usually have some form of security and surveilence. This is only a deterent. Don't forget about the girl abducted at Target. The cameras helped find the killer, but they did not protect the girl.
I don't know enough about the case to comment on the particulars. I just wanted to remind everyone that more laws and security may not be the answer. This lawsuit will not protect anybody in the future. You will still have to take care of yourself and loved ones as best as possible and allways be mindful of your surroundings.
Posted by arodriguez on August 6, 2007 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with jsneed. I dont think that this lawsuit is going to solve anything either. I am deeply sorry for their loss, but this lawsuit will not bring her back. Like jsneed said it will only bring higher cost for us all. No one is required to have cameras they do it as an extra in hopes that it will bring down crime. Just think about it what about all these robberies at these convenience stores do you think the convenient store is to blame for what happens? The answer is NO it is neither the store nor the employees fault for what happens it is the one that chose to do the crime. The only thing the cameras and security do is to possibly help in preventing it, it does not mean it will never happen or that it guarantees that it will not happen.
Posted by narc on August 6, 2007 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well said arodriquez, we live in a dangerous world and we need to be cautious at all times. This was an awful tragedy and no amount of money will make it right, but I hope when this is all done their family will find some peace and closure.
Posted by southwestaustin on August 6, 2007 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Predators have always known that a hospital parking lot is a great place to stake out their next victim. Why? Because of the large percentage of female nurses. If a psycho could figure this out, then a corporation like Spohn Hospital should have too. There have been so many movies about nurses being preyed upon by various types of criminals. It only makes sense that they are vulnerable to all sorts of weirdos.
Posted by grimjack41 on August 6, 2007 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Law suit abuse pure and simple. Then people wonder why you have to go to San Antonio or other cities to find a "good doctor".....
In my opinion for Spohn to be "liable" it must be proven that Spohn in some way either encouraged, or allowed this act to happen. Simply having the act to occur isn't enough. What happened here is completely sad but suing a 3rd party just because they have money doesn't make it right. If Spohn withheld evidence or in any way interfered with the investigation in any way, that’s an issue between the DA and Spohn, not the family. Unless there was a law change I don’t know about there isn’t any requirement for a company to give up ANYTHING of this nature unless under court order. How would you feel if I demanded your family home videos for example because I tripped in your yard? How do you know I’m not going to use it for something else (like where you hide your keys or the layout of your home), etc.
This is greed pure and simple. I feel for the family but I sure hope they loose, for all our sake. It’s funny how wolves circle when they smell blood....
Posted by visuallink on August 6, 2007 at 7:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's not greed and its not lawsuit abuse... Debra had all the money and was going to put them all through college, and lead them to great lives. Now she is gone. Who is going to put them through college? Who is going to provide for the children now? How are the two little ones going to survive without their mother being able to provide for them? The youngest one has Down syndrome! Debra put all the food on the table. SHE HAD ALL THE MONEY! It's not greed, it's about the kids being able to live great lives from here on out and helping cope with what happend to Debbie without having to worry about the dangers of not having any money on top of losing their mother.
You people don't know this family so how the hell would you know what is going on in their minds right now? It's not GREED or MONEY or any kind of open opportunity for money. This is how you get back at corporation for not providing a safe environment. The Corporation is GREEDY, not the Slough's. They don't like to give a dime to anyone.. Sure anyone will accept the money from a lawsuit, but they would drop this whole damn lawsuit if they saw Debra walk right through that front door because this lawsuit isn't exactly about money. You speak like you know who they are. You don't. You have no idea because this has never happend to any of you. I see them every day, and we all pass by Debra's grave everyday. You are all just people with lowdown opinions because you were never in this situation. They will win, and I will be right at their side when they do. And when they do, everything you people say, and all the criticism towards the lawsuit will amount to nothing.
Lawsuit abuse, greed....? Hush with all this crap. It's not true. They would give it all up to see Debbie's face again. All you all can do is compare it to an abduction from Target which is a portion size of Spohn, or something IDIOTIC like "tripping in the front yard". This was a murder, not a trip. You all sound so childish.
You hope they lose for your sake? What sake? The only people who have anything to lose is the family. Not you. Why should Spohn raise your healthcare costs when they make billions of dollars in profits to cover for it EVERY SINGLE YEAR! If healthcare does go up, it should only be like 5 dollars per person, because of all the people registered that 5 dollars will cover for their money loss in a heart beat. Why should Spohn raise your health care? Don't they sound greedy? The money that Spohn will lose from this lawsuit is like a penny out of their pocket. Spohn are the greedy ones, not anyone else.
Posted by rramos4us on August 7, 2007 at 5:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Again I agree with visualink. Yes, your right 100% The greed and lies are what's fueling this case. Lawsuit abuse?? Whoever said that needs to have their heads examined. What's it to these people? Are they paying to take care of the kids in this case. What if it was you? Then they would be concerned. Hey , they need to provide a safe place to work not trying to cover up mistakes. No COver-ups Just pay up and then leave this family alone. They have suffered enough.
Posted by narc on August 7, 2007 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
visualink,
your insults speak a great deal about your character. People have differences of opinions, that doesn't make them idiots or lowdown. Lawsuit abuse is everywhere in this town, and if you look at this from an unbiased point of view you can see an arguement for both sides. I have lost a family member due to a violent crime, so I do know what it is like. Insulting people doesn't make the pain go away, and neither does money.
Posted by grimjack41 on August 7, 2007 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And here we go again. People with this "YOU OWE ME" mentality. How will the kids get taken care of and go to school? Are you telling me that their father can’t work? Or that their grandparents can’t support them? That’s what family and insurance is for. If she could work as a nurse at Spohn I would think she could afford these things. What ever happened to planning for the worst and self reliance in our community? No it’s not my responsibility to take care of myself it’s the big bad greedy company’s fault and their job!
Here is another question, are they asking for enough to send the kids to college and bury her or are they asking for millions in damages? I might buy the argument if it was for school and burial costs (I would still disagree but could buy the argument) but why millions few people make more than 1 million in their entire life! Yet they want to be millionaires. Why because they can ie lawsuit abuse.
If Spohn killed her or allowed her to be killed, I would agree they should be punished but THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!! It was a private citizen stalker! If Spohn had gone after him, they could have faced a REAL and VALID lawsuit called discrimination! If he was loitering, the most they could have done is called the police but loitering isn’t even enough for a restraining order or a fine!
What I meant by "for our sake" is because if she wins, a standard will be set in this area which will further drive the medical community out. I don't know about you but I don't want to go to SA every time I go for a check up. Companies are in business to make money, period if due to lawsuits and the requirements they put on them, it costs more to operate than they make, either they raise the prices or leave. There is something else factored into the price and it’s called RISK. If a company is in a high LAWSUIT RISK AREA, like we are in they will charge more to cover the eventual lawsuit risk…. In other words YOU pay in advance for the lawsuit that YOU will file…..
Once again if my point hasn’t been made the family gets a short term benefit but EVERYONE ELSE LOSES in the long run, including them.
Weather YOU like it or not WE should take responsibility for our own actions and family. What has happened is horrible and I do feel for the family. I would like you to know though how this money will “help”? Will it bring her back? No. Will it change anything, no because what did they do wrong? What is the family trying to change? Will it raise the cost of medical care? Yes. So what will it help?
Posted by grimjack41 on August 7, 2007 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hospitals are a business like any other. There is no LAW that REQUIRES any business to guarantee its employees security. They try to offer it as a benefit so that their employees feel secure. The company security isn’t police officers and so have no authority to detain, arrest, question, etc. Security and protection is a GOVERNMENT requirement. If they had a security officer go with her and both ended up dead would then both families sue Spohn for not sending a 3rd a 4th, a 5th, the whole hospital? Where does it end?
I'm sorry but no amount of insults will change these facts and if you have to justify your actions to sleep at night, then maybe you know deep down that you are doing something WRONG….
Posted by rramos4us on August 7, 2007 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is a suggestion. If you need a doctor load up and drive to S.A. If you think that this case is law suit abuse. Go there and tell the doctor to change your diapers and wipe your tears away because of all the crying your doing Wah Wah!. This has to do with a family and that's all. Leave this family alone and mind your bisness. Then everyone wins. I hope Sphon has to pay big bucks for the lies and cover-ups.
Posted by visuallink on August 7, 2007 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Grimjack, maybe you don't understand the concept of a "profit." A "profit" is money left over after all a company's expenses. Spohn made 1.5 BILLION (not million, but billion) dollars in profit in 2006, and most likely something similar to that this year. You don't use profit to pay for expenses because profit is whats left over AFTER THEY ARE ALREADY PAID.
It is the company's fault, partly. The best way to deal with a criminal is prison time and the best way to deal with a corporation is money. Face it, facts are facts. It's how things work. They had poor security, no one to watch the cameras, and a film to prove that the man was on the property. Do you not know how long he was on Spohn before he made a move? Maybe you need to do some more studying.
The point is that in a building like this, someone should at least be watching the camera room, and security should always be circling the building. What everyone fails to realize is how long Alvarez was actually on the property before he abducted Debbie. It was 4 or more hours.
Target - Girl gets abducted. Man runs up, grabs her, and leaves. The man was only on the premises for about 5 to 10 mins, which really isn't a reasonably amount of time for security to classify someone as suspicious.
Spohn - Alvarez walks around in and out of the building, numerously passing security guards, parking lots, and spends about 4 hours looking for a victim OUT IN THE OPEN where he could be seen at 3pm, and is even caught on tape. 4 hours? Don't you think a man who is constantly moving around this place is suspicious after 4 hours? Or was there not enough security to notice this guy? He was even peaking into car windows...something the patient noticed and the guards didn't notice. The guards just walked around because they had to...It's the hire officials who are responsible for training the guards properly even if they pay them minimum wage.
Alvarez was walking around, looking suspicious, trying to find the perfect opportunity to take someone. I mean, if there was enough security like there should be, then one of the guards should have said himself, "hey...I've seen this guy at least 6 or 7 times pass by me going in different directions, and I've even seen him in the building walking the halls, I wonder what he's doing here?" Alvarez was on the property for a long time. Security should always be alert of their surroundings, and if 2 or 3 guards isn't enough, then there should be more. If security was adequate then most likely one of them would have stopped him and escorted him off the building.
*Continues on the next comment*
Posted by visuallink on August 7, 2007 at 6:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
*continuation of the comment above*
Why has security improved significantly at Spohn every since Debbie's death if this is true like some are saying? Wait..maybe the question is... Why wasn't security as good back then as it is right now? Maybe because they were lazy and not properly trained to be alert because they couldn't spot a man to be suspicious who was on the premises for FOUR hours and walking all around their parking lots and inside the building.
If all these facts weren't true about Alvarez then the lawsuit wouldn't even be going on right now. The lawyers, me, the family, and everyone else truly believe that Spohn is somewhat at fault based on the facts that Alvarez told the reporters and interviewers when they asked him how long he was on the premises, what he was doing on the premises, where he abducted her from, and how he did it and all the other heartbreaking facts from this story.
Posted by bill_sebring on August 8, 2007 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I will agree that there is lawsuit abuse, but I also think that it's been hyped up for a purpose. Business and the almighty dollar is not some holy alter that we should hide behind, as an excuse for not going after someone when they've been, wait for the word, "Negligient". I do agree with visuallink here. The security situation was NOTHING but a joke. If you were in this families shoes Grimjack, you'd be screaming as loudly as they were. The hospital was denying it had security tapes, when in fact they did. There is a problem with Lawsuit abuse, but that is not an excuse for business to hide behind when it's screwed up.
Posted by robertnsheri on August 9, 2007 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
visuallink....
So was the criminal on property 4 or 6 hours? You never answered my question! I posted exactly what you said on previous postings and you said 4 and then you said 6! Hmmmm...
Also, if you're so CLOSE to the family....then get together with other family members and do a fundraiser (to send the kids to college) instead of trying to blame a HOSPITAL for actions of a criminal.
Also, if you think you can do a better job at securing a HOSPITAL and you want to prevent this from happening again....GET A JOB AT A HOSPITAL FOR THE SECURITY DEPARTMENT.
Posted by robertnsheri on August 9, 2007 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Also, the guards (security officers) are NOT paid minimum wage. But yet you know so much!
Posted by visuallink on August 10, 2007 at 2:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't remember saying "Security at Spohn gets paid minimum wage."
I said they should be properly trained even if they were being paid minimum wage. If they are paid more than that, then hell, they should have been top of the line.
I'm not blaming the hospital for Alvarez's actions. I'm blaming the hospital for not having enough security when this happend. I mean hell, 4 to 6 hours, maybe longer? Must I repeat my whole article all over again? If you are trying to tell me that there was nothing wrong with security on the day of this tragedy, then tell me how he got away with everything he did that day on the premises. You must have not seen the news two years ago when they had him on camera admitting what he did on the hospital, and how long he was there. And as I've said before, the lawsuit wouldn't have been filed if he hadn't have been all over the hospital for half the morning hours.
And by the way.. If I had control over how the hospital operates then security would not be a problem.
Posted by robertnsheri on August 10, 2007 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Then make a difference and change that! Hmmm, no response about a fundraiser huh?? Also, most people involved in criminal activity do not always tell the truth.
Posted by robertnsheri on August 10, 2007 at 6:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
grimjack41:
Great points....but he (visuallink) will never understand that!!
Posted by dannoynted1 on August 11, 2007 at 4:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The truth is Bank o and McDonough bailed because they knew the Chit was fixing to hit and attach itself to the proverbial FAN!
It stinks!
posted by dannoynted1 | 3:03 AM
1 Comments:
Great article, how do you feel this will be affected in the future? I’m glad I stumbled across this website!
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